Lucem Fero | Interviews | After Forever

“De-Energized” - After Forever guitarist Sanders Gommans shares the explanations as to why it was time to take the plunge and self-title the group's fifth album

By Anthony Morgan

After Forever, named after the Black Sabbath track culled from the 1971 album Master of Reality, spawned in 1995 wielding their blend of Death Metal and Classical music. Current singer Floor Jansen joined the fold two years later, blessing the material with a more diverse approach while retaining the prominent Classical influences. Two subsequent demos called Wings of Illusion and Ephemeral saw After Forever iron out their rough edges in preparation for their 2000 debut Prison of Desire, immediately followed by 2001's Decipher. Treading in their footsteps, the mini album Exordium and the full length studio efforts Invisible Circles and Reimagine all benefited from global distribution. In their native Holland alone, After Forever have shared the stage with Nightwish and Charon. Even the major festivals Pinkpop, Lowlands, Dynamo and Ozzfest have boasted the group's inclusion in past lineups.

For quite some time they hadn't crafted an album which they felt lived up to the group name. Until now that is. Prominent guest appearances in the shape of Jeff Waters (Annihilator) and Doro Pesch (ex Warlock) on the tracks “De-Energized” and “Who I Am” respectively add another tasty sprinkling to the record, enticing yet more others to check out their material. It is a summation of who After Forever are as musicians, and a hint at what musical paths they'll explore in future material. A winning formula has materialized with Gordon Groothedde's production brought into the mix, and with a new label home at Nuclear Blast the world seems to be at their fingertips.

Guitarist Sander Gommans remains the sole founder of the group, and wished to discuss the group's new and exciting musical chapter through a phone interview. His genuine desire to further the band's reputation has unfortunately resulted in a physical burnout recently, with doctor's orders demanding that he rest and take things easy. The new self titled fifth record, recent health troubles and his much anticipated HDK project all presented subjects for discussion. A true gentleman, Sander's warm nature and deep passion for music shined through in his enlightening answers.

Hello?
Hello. This is Sander Gomman from After Forever, good evening.
Good evening, this is Anthony. How are you?
I'm ok, and am doing fine. I'm having a wonderful summer's day in Holland, so I'm catching some sun and that's always good. How are you?
I'm alright. Is it ok if I start the questions now?
Yep.
How did After Forever come about?
Yeah. Me and Joost (van den Broek, keyboards) began writing the new songs, though we didn't really think about the album this time. Most of the time I have an idea of how the album should sound and what style the album should be, but this time I didn't really think about it. I just started writing, we showed the result to the rest of the bandmembers, and then they studied the material. Once we rehearsed the album, we then re-recorded it - our producer Gordon Groothedde from Holland also took care of the sound and so on. After we recorded all the songs, we were really surprised ourselves because of the sound and because of how the songs sounded. Another reason for this was as a result of all the music that we did before it on all the other albums; it really fitted into this album, so we united all the styles into one record and that's this record.
Is there a reason why you didn't think about it so much this time?
Well I think normally I had a lot of time to think about things like that in the sense that I think we need to prove something. In the female fronted Metal world there's a lot of things all the bands do the same, and I always want to do something a little bit different with After Forever. As a result, we made a real progressive album, a real melodic album and a real heavy album. This time I actually thought we did everything we could do to make something unique, so let's now see what comes out of it and see what our style will be. Yeah, actually I think the result was that it sounds fresher. Basically, we combined everything that we normally did.
Is there a reason why you feel the need to prove something sometimes?
Yeah there is. Like I said, I think the female fronted Metal scene is not so original a lot of the time. The musicians are normally only playing really plodding parts, so the rest of the Metal audience doesn't take this kind of music seriously because nothing happens.
Because it's too stale?
Yeah, though I think what I want to show is that you feel from the music, you can make the music interesting and you can also make a lot happen in a progressive way. That's what I want to show the people; that you can go and buy an album and make it a very interesting Metal scene, and I think some of the bands do that exactly like we do. I think that's cool.
Is there a lot of scope with Floor's vocals then?
I think her voice is as versatile as it can be; she can sing Operatic vocals, she can do Poppy material and she can do real Extreme Metal music. She can do a lot, and due to her versatility we can do a lot with our music. If we had a vocalist that could only sing Opera then we would have been much less versatile because you cannot do it like that then.
How was recording?
Recording was similar to every album; I play all the guitar parts, the drummer does his parts, the bass player does his parts and then the female singer does her parts. It wasn't much different than normal, but this time the role of the producer was a little bit bigger and this time he made more decisions concerning the sound etc. As I already said though, the recordings were just as the other sessions; you have to play your parts right, you have to be prepared and you have to be focused. Everybody thinks it's fun and it's interesting, but in a way if you've recorded five albums so far and this is the sixth one to be recorded, then you already know what's going on. We also pre-recorded the songs here in my home studio. It was a very good process though and well prepared, but it wasn't very interesting.
You said you've done five albums, and I'm just wondering how you keep it fresh?
Well that's the thing, and that's why I sometimes think we need to prove something. We keep it fresh by still trying something else with every album, and in fact we don't actually try it as it just comes out like that. I think we always do two different kinds of music and can still be inspired by all kinds of bands; sometimes I'm really into mellower groups for example, and other times I'm really inspired by heavier bands like Slayer and groups like that. Every period and every year offers other inspirations; it can be a band, it can be situations, whatever. You have to see the flow you're into at that time, and because every year is different then every period is different, and every album will also be different.
What inspirations were there during the period you recorded After Forever?
For this album? This album was inspired by, for example, not the new Dream Theater album but the album before that. Also, The Black Album by Metallica was an influence... I think these were the main inspirations for this album.
Is there a reason why you decided for After Forever to be self-titled?
Yes certainly. First of all, I think it's our best album but you always say that about your last album. This album though has all the characteristics and all the elements After Forever has to offer, but this time united in one album. Normally every After Forever album was a different style, but this album shows all the styles united in the songs. I think that's what makes it so cool and that's what makes it particularly After Forever, but it also offers something new. It shows all the sides of After Forever and the best of After Forever, so I thought this album should really be titled After Forever.
Is there a reason why you chose now as opposed to say before to self-title an album?
Yeah. There was no album before that which deserved the After Forever title, though I love every album we made and I'm behind it. Every album had showed another side of After Forever, but there was no album until now that showed all the sides of After Forever.
When you recorded the first album did you ever consider releasing that as a self-titled album?
No.
There wasn't any discussion about that at all then was there?
No.
Ok, I'm just interested in the fact you mentioned Metallica earlier. I actually picked up on that myself because their fifth album was also self titled wasn't it?
Yeah it was, and it certainly showed some inspiration. If you listen to the first song then the first guitar you'll actually be hearing is a little bit inspired by “Wherever I May Roam” from the Metallica album in terms of how the verses are. We really focus on riffs with this album, and that's why it's also much more guitar oriented. You need to have a strong riff, and it doesn't have to be difficult sometimes. You need to have a strong riff though which you can use in the entire song, and maybe sometimes played a little bit differently. The song is actually based on a certain riff, and that's what we did with these songs for a part of it at least. The first song especially shows this, this riff oriented material.
Do you like that riff orientated material particularly?
I think one of the elements of Metal is based on guitar riffs, and I think guitar riffs are even more important than solos. A good guitar riff shows what Metal is about, and when you hear all the Metal classics they're nearly always based on guitar riffs which make you shiver and make you feel special. I certainly think it can make a lot of difference if you have a good guitar riff, even in the live arena, so I think it's one of the most important things about our style.
Do you find Kirk Hammett an influence in your guitar playing?
No no, certainly not. For my guitar playing James Hetfield is the inspiration.
How does James Hetfield inspires you?
Well I think James Hetfield is just like Jeff Waters of Annihilator, and both have this way of hitting the strings which really belongs to Thrash. They have very tight rhythm playing and a lot of downstrokes. The way they play the downstrokes makes the sound, and that's what inspires me a lot - not only with After Forever but also with other things I do. Their way of rhythm playing is really brilliant I think.
Ok. Metallica's fifth album was classed as very different to their previous albums, so I'm just wondering would you think this album is very different to the past albums that After Forever have released?
No I don't think so, and I don't think so because the fans don't seem to think so. I think a lot of the fans are happy that we did something different sound wise, and also by using the great orchestra parts we maintained the old elements and the old style. After Forever is no big surprise for the fans, and I think this time that's good. Normally the fans are always surprised by the albums because they are always different, and they have to get used to it. After Forever is what I already said; a sum of all the different styles, so I don't think it's different. I think it's certainly much more worked out, and much more detailed than all our previous work.
So it's all the aspects of After Forever would you say?
Yep.
Have you had good feedback from the fans for After Forever?
Yeah actually. The reaction overall seems to be overwhelmingly positive, and we reached sixth place in the Dutch album charts. That's extremely high for After Forever, so it seems that people really like it.
Are you very happy with sixth place in the Dutch charts?
Oh yeah. It shows that people still buy albums, and it shows that although there are so many foreign mainstream bands whom are really huge, a Metal band from Holland can still reach sixth place. That's pretty unique, and I'm really proud of that.
So you're really proud to be from Holland then, and be a Dutch band?
No, I'm not really proud to be from Holland. I'm proud that we were in sixth place actually (laughs). Holland doesn't have anything to do with our music.
How has feedback been internationally?
So far it's been very good. What's very striking to me is that people who aren't into After Forever or that weren't into After Forever in the past - maybe the more Extreme Metal orientated people - really seem to like it a lot now. I hear all different views, I read them and they come from people who are surprised to hear this from After Forever. I think that's also mainly because of the production, as this time the album really sounds Metal and you really hear the riffs and the aggression. I think that's a new thing, so thus far the reaction is really good.
So After Forever has found a new audience would you say?
I think it's found a bigger audience, but not necessarily in the commercial world. This has been more in the Metal world though, and I think that's what we are looking for.
How would you describe your guitar contributions to After Forever?
Well I think just as always, a lot of songs are based on guitar riffs. This time it's mainly the riffs that create the groove, and also create the way the song goes and the way a song follows an atmosphere. This time though I focused more on catchy riffs than on very difficult stuff with a lot of notes, which I replaced with solos. We played a few solos which we normally never did, and it's far more melodic and far more extensive than what we did before.
Do you think some bands have a habit of overcomplicating things sometimes with music?
It depends, as sometimes I really love overcomplicated music. I listen to Dream Theater and bands in that genre and sometimes I love it, but then again sometimes I think it's too much. It depends on the atmosphere you're in.
What do you like about Dream Theater?
I love Images and Words for example. I know that that's their second album, but still it's one of the most amazing albums I know; if you listen to "Metropolis" to me it's one of the best songs ever written, and I think it's really over the top with all these technical parts. Still though, then you can also create some midway in it. I just bought the new Threshold album, and that really makes some kind of midway area - it's still progressive but really catchy. I like bands who create very difficult music, but only if they still have catchy elements in it and if they actually can play it. Dream Theater is certainly a group which belongs to those bands.
Are there any other particular bands that you can think of which belong to those bands as well?
You mean progressive wise? Or...
Progressive yet catchy.
I think it's certainly a different style of genre. If you listen to Genesis or some of the solo records Phil Collins made, or even some of the Marillion material, then it's really progressive. There's a lot occurring, but still it's catchy. In the Metal scene if you listen to Evergrey or say Ayreon, this Dutch Rock Opera band I know, then you'll know these bands create songs that are pretty difficult to play. A lot of interesting things are happening in these tracks sometimes that seem to be real extremely catchy, and I think that's cool if you can do that.
Are you fans of those bands that you just mentioned?
Yes certainly.
What guitarists influenced your contributions to After Forever?
Jeff Waters from Annihilator for sure, who also participates on this album. He's my all time guitar hero who actually influenced me a lot in creating my own songs. Also the guitarists from Judas Priest influenced me; when I started playing the guitar I learnt all those Judas Priest riffs. That kind of music really inspired me.
In what way did those guitarists influence you?
First of all they influence me in a technical way of course, but also in the way of writing songs. You can play some difficult things, but if you can't write a song then you're still getting no further. It's the way they write the songs and the way they know when to put an interesting riff in the songs. It's also the way they know when to do simplistic things, and the way they give the vocals the freedom. I think that's the biggest challenge of writing songs; to know when you have to keep it simple for you and the guitar player and when you have to make something interesting. I think Jeff Waters of Annihilator and the guitarists from Judas Priest both know exactly how that works though, as I like that and I pick that up.
Do you enjoy that particular challenge?
Of course, and it's always a challenge. Writing a song is always a challenge and is always something very... hmm how do you say it? I worry a lot when we write the songs about whether it's good enough or it isn't, and I keep changing it until we go into the studio. It's always a very very interesting challenge that always changes because your opinion also changes, so it keeps you busy, focused and versatile.
Do you worry a lot whether the songs are good enough or not?
Oh yeah, always always. It's a very emotional process, and it takes a lot of energy and a lot of devotion to create a song. If I think a song is not good enough then it won't be on the album. I really really need to get the feeling that it fits, that it's good, that it's over and it's good the way it is. It's very hard to make the decision “Ok, we don't change it anymore. This is it” as that's pretty tough, but I always know when it's like that.
Would you say that's typical of other guitarists?
I don't know. I think guitarists will write songs that sometimes really focus on their guitar parts, and if they sound cool then it's ok. I can be more focused on the whole song; on the vocal lines, on the Classical material, on everything. For me, everything that happens in the song besides the guitars is just as important as the guitars itself.
How do you know when a song is finished?
When I can already picture it on a CD, and when I can think; “This I could play. This I could play and not be ashamed of (laughs)”. It's funny you have to ask, because it's difficult to explain that you have to be proud of the song.
How do you feel you've personally evolved over the years as a guitarist?
I think I first tried to play a lot of difficult stuff which I actually couldn't play. That was too difficult for me though now I know what my boundaries are; I know what I can and I know what I cannot do. I try to keep a balance between some interesting guitar bits but also between some very simple guitar bits that'll give the rest of the band the space. I think I've learnt to use my guitar more extensively; not only four chords, not only in the middle range, but to do more with it. I think I've learnt to make extreme things more extreme, and the catchy things more catchy by using more elements of the guitar itself in terms of the sound. Yeah, I think that's it.
Do you feel you now know your identity as a musician?
I don't know. I'm also working on my own project which will be much more aggressive than After Forever and I think it's got more of my identity. I think I have a very extreme identity which sometimes I can use that in After Forever, but then sometimes I think it's too much for After Forever. I've got a very melodic identity that I work out in After Forever, but I also love 80's Pop music and that's a totally different style of music though I also love that.
How has Baz's part in the band in recent years helped you learn new things as a guitar player?
How has he helped me? Well I think Baz has a really cool attitude on stage, and that's really important. Normally I play on all the albums, so I do all the guitar parts. Baz is a really cool guitar player though, especially on stage as he's got a unique energy, plays in a really Rock N Roll style and also has this enthusiasm onstage. I learnt a lot of that, especially live in terms of the way he acts and the way he uses energy in the music I think. That's what I learnt a lot of.
So he's helped you to be a better live performer has he?
Well, not in terms of playing but more in terms of...
Stage attitude?
Yeah, of presenting myself.
Ok that sounds cool. This is a difficult question to ask, but I'm just wondering if you feel the band has come out of that dark period of two years ago? If I'm right André and some other friends were suffering from cancer? Is everything ok now, and is the band out of that dark period so to speak?
Actually André is ok and doing good now. The cancer seems to be gone.
Is it in remission now?
Yeah of course. The cancer seems to be away, so he seems to be doing well. Unfortunately one of our male friends that also had cancer passed away, but another one has been cured. Right now I'm sick because I have a severe burn out condition, so I'm deeply overworked. I cannot do any performances right now as I have to stay at home, doctor's orders. I really have to take my absolute rest, so it seems like unlucky things are following us again (laughs). We'll get over it though.
So you feel that everything comes out ok in the end then is it?
Well everything has to be ok in the end (laughs). No I think so, but it'll take a long time before I return with the band again. I think it will certainly take a few months.
Well you have my condolences about your friend who passed away anyway.
Thanks.
In what ways is the new album a great summation of everything the band has done?
Yeah, I think you could see it like that. All kinds of different styles we did in the past come together now in this album, and I think it's all worked out in a better way. It's certainly some kind of a summary of what After Forever is and was about, and also will be about in a few years.
So it's a mixture of everything?
Yeah.
Which part of the album hints at the future?
The really extreme, Thrash Metal oriented parts for example, but also the modern sounds of the keyboards, the combination of the industrial parts and the Classical parts, that difficult combination; these are all hints to the future.
So After Forever will go in that direction on future material will it?
Not in a new direction, we will...
Well go more in that particular direction, more in that Thrashy style..
Yeah I think so. I think I will certainly write some more extreme stuff for the next album also, yep.
How did you get Doro Pesch (ex Warlock) to play on the new album?
I thought it would be cool to show the fans that this style is oriented in the 80's actually. A lot of people don't know Doro, and they don't know that it's possible to have Heavy Metal music with female vocals. A lot of fans only know the Gothic part of this music, and I thought it would be cool to show the Heavy Metal part of this music. I thought it would be cool to have Doro participate on the album in a duet with Floor, and Baz our other guitar player already knew her so he was already in touch with her. I asked her and she was very happy to participate; she's a very nice woman, great to work with and I think she did a great job.
How do you feel her vocals compliment the song?
I think they make the song Rockier, more extreme and sicker. She's got a really cool voice, especially for a woman. She has a lot of expression and a lot of roughness in her voice, so it makes the song more evil in a way.
Is that song being played live at the moment?
Yep.
How is Floor coping with singing Doro's parts?
Cool, as she also did the guy's vocals and made them (laughs). She gives her own interpretation which isn't exactly the way Doro does it, but it's really cool.
Are you a Warlock fan then?
Yeah I think it's cool. I'm not a real fan as I don't know all the material, but I respect that they've done that kind of music since the 80's. That's incredible.
So they're originators are they?
Yep.
Could you also tell me how you got Jeff Waters to play on the new album?
Actually, it was very funny. I got to know him through a gig we played in Berlin which he was at. Jeff Waters is really my hero and my example, for I adore his way of guitar playing and way of composing. That's how I got to know him and got in touch with him. We were emailing a little bit, and then I just thought "Let's ask him for the album, see if he reacts". He was willing to participate, there was no problem and he was really happy to do it. He was really cool, and a very nice person just like Doro. Great people.
Were you surprised that he was down to earth?
Yeah, in the beginning I was because Jeff Waters is so cool. Everybody in Metal knows who he is, and he's such a brilliant player. I can imagine that that would do something to your ego, but no not at all. He's such a real, nice, down to earth guy.
Were you afraid of being let down, if that makes sense?
Well the thing I was afraid of was that Jeff... you know you're always afraid when you meet an idol, that he will disappoint you.
That's what I mean.
Yeah exactly, but totally not. He's what a musician should be; creative when playing, but also more realistic and respectful of others.
Are you going to do some more things with Jeff?
Well, I'm working on a project and he might do some tunes on that one too.
Is that HDK?
Yeah exactly.
Is there anything in particular you're going to get him to work on with that? Do you have a song in the works?
Well what I'd like to do with Jeff is have him play maybe another solo.
Do you have a song in mind?
Yeah I have a song in mind.
Is it a secret, or can you tell me?
No, it's not really a secret but I haven't spoken to Jeff about it yet. That would be a little bit.. (laughs).
Obviously you'll have to speak to him first before you can tell me anything.
Yeah, that would be better (laughs).
I get what you mean.
It's a very Thrashy song, and I would love to have a very cool solo on it. I also spoke to the singer of Annihilator, David Padden, and he was also willing to participate. It would be cool if he could sing on a few songs, but we'll see.
Would they work on the same song? Or would they work on different tracks?
We'll see, we'll see. That's not decided yet.
So nothing's in concrete yet then?
No it isn't, not at this point as sometimes my opinion changes. I listen to the material, and I think “It'd be cool if we did this” or “Maybe it's better to do this”. That's not as concrete, though it should have been more concrete. I have been forced to take absolute rest though, so really I'm not concentrating on that right now too much.
So you're a big Annihilator fan?
Yeah.
Is there a favourite album you got, or something like that?
Well, Annihilator is actually a little bit like After Forever in the sense that every album has a different style and that's why it's so hard for me to name a favourite Annihilator album. I like them all actually because they all explore different regions of Metal; in every album I hear other things, and that's what I like so much about Annihilator because they're never exactly the same. I think the last albums are more extreme, but I also like the albums in the mid 90's, the more Rock oriented ones, and even the Jazz oriented ones on some song parts. I think it's all brilliant. Their first two albums were cult albums already, and they were really Thrash, Technical Thrash albums. The rest of the albums after that are as really good as these albums, yet totally different. If you get to appreciate that then you'll think it's cool, though if you expect the same Technical Thrash in all the other albums then...
Nah, that's a bit boring that is isn't it?
Yeah exactly.
I like a different thing on every album.
Exactly.
In what ways is the rhythm section critical to After Forever's sound?
Normally, especially with female fronted bands, a lot of the time the rhythm parts are really boring. They sound like “dunn-dunn-dunn--dunn-dunn-dunn” and that kind of material; really slow and not very dynamic. What we try to do is make interesting rhythms also interesting, dynamic rhythm parts with the bass guitar and the drums. Sometimes changing a pattern a little bit gives a lot of life to the song, and it's more versatile. I think actually André the drummer and Luuk the bass guitarist they have this kind of... how can I put it?... especially in clean parts they're a little like Queensrÿche. With the Operation: Mindcrime album for example the rhythm parts are also crucial to the album, and here it's the same; they give the vibe, the groove and the versatility that it should have. It's just in minor details, but it's so important for After Forever. That is what also makes After Forever a more Progressive band.
They have a lot of range do they?
Actually no. Joost and I arrange nearly everything, but still when they do it it sounds better. They've got some fresh ideas too, so as a team it works.
Do you feel other bands underuse their rhythm section?
I think other bands sometimes sound like a drum computer, and sometimes I miss the real dynamics which you get with drums and a bass guitar. I think that's what our drummer and our bass guitarist are good at; they play in a dynamic way and that's what I like.
Sounds very fresh does it?
Yeah.
So you don't like the drum machine-esque sound do you?
I like a drum machine when it suits, which for example is in Industrial music. It doesn't suit when it has to rock and when it has to groove or whatever. It should be a real drummer then, and it should have a little groove in it.
In what ways is After Forever a reflection of the past?
"After Forever is a reflection of the past when you listen to the the melodic parts for example, as we had a very Melodic album in the past and this album is also more melodic in the way the orchestra is used. That has some influences from the past, only with the difference being that this is a real orchestra and a better range, though melodically speaking this album has some similarities. We also did a very Progressive album in the past called Invisible Circles, and also this album is more Progressive in some ways; the long song "Dreamflight" is especially a really Progressive song. The real aggressive material though reflects more on the first album where we had some real Thrashy elements, and now again these Thrashy elements come back. In more ways than one it's a reflection of the past.
Are you going to go into this more Progressive style then?
I already think we are one of the more Progressive bands in the female fronted genre. What I'd like to be is more Metal, and I like to see After Forever as a Metal band. I'm satisfied if people see it like that, as a real Metal band, and I think this time it also sounds Metal. The parts are really Metal oriented so that's what I'd like to see most.
Do you like songs that are seven to eight minutes long, and go into so many different directions?
I like the versatility of songs. When we write a very catchy, slow song then I like it, but only if we also have a very aggressive song or a very long song or whatever. Every song has to have a counterpart. Every song has to have an opposite song that makes the song good again, which to me is being versatile.
How did you meet Gordon (Groothedde, producer)?
Joost our keyboard player was doing a study, and he visited Gordon for that study. They got in touch, it was a good encounter, and they kept in touch. When we searched for a producer, we thought “Well it might be good to pick a producer that is not really into this style” though Gordon got really into this style. He might make other, more potent choices, different choices that make the production stand out more. Joost said “Actually, Gordon is a very good producer” and he played me some of his material. He convinced me, so I said “You know, let's go for it”. He then came to my house and we talked a little bit. He appeared to be a very cool guy, but also very interested in our music. The chemistry worked, so it was cool.
So you got on really well did you?
Yeah certainly.
You said that in some ways Gordon felt like the band's seventh member. Could you expand upon that?
Normally we did a lot of production for the albums. This time Gordon carried the sound, but also he was there with pre-production so he saw how the songs grew. It was the first time that a producer was actually involved with that kind of thing, so that was really cool. That's why I said he felt like the seventh band member as he was already there during the early process, and I think that's also the reason how he came up with this impressive sound. He knew the songs through and through - he would already think about a song and what would be a better sound when he was in the rehearsal room. I think that was part of it.
Did you feel that way about past producers? Were you as happy as you are with Gordon?
I think every producer we worked with was a good producer as they all have their talents. From every producer I heard really great productions that make our style sound impressive yet different. It's really really difficult to do that, and you have to be really into it. I think Gordon stands out with that because he's a really good producer and I think he'll do more Metal bands - he knows exactly how to get the right atmosphere.
Are you going to use him on future albums?
I think so, yeah.
Are you going to possibly use him with your other projects like HDK?
I'm thinking about it. Actually, I've recorded everything myself so the songs are already recorded, but for the mix he might be an option certainly.
You said he is an “atypical Metal producer”. Could you expand upon that?
He's actually a Rock producer who's a pretty famous producer in Holland.
Oh right. What sort of music does he do then?
He does a lot of commercial music such as Rock music and Pop music, which all sounds really cool. In the past he was a Metal musician so he knows a lot about Metal, but he never produced something like that. That's probably how it sounds so fresh - he doesn't always make the most obvious choices, and that's what I like.
Do you feel he was very happy to work with a Metal group instead of say the Rock bands he usually produces, and it was something different for him?
Yeah. I think it was a challenge for him too, and he was happy with that, yep.
Could you tell me about your favourite track on the album?
That's probably either “De-Energized” because of the atmosphere and because of Jeff Waters, or “Transitory”.
Could you tell me about “Transitory”?
What should I tell you about it?
About how it came about or something similar?
We'll always have a few more extreme songs on the album. Joost sent me a keyboard part, and I thought “Ok, that sounds cool”. I put on the near of that keyboard part the rhythm which the song starts with, then I wrote the verses and then the chorus pretty soon after that. The song was pretty evenly written, but it's a heavy song and that's what I like. It's a powerful song, has a lot of Thrash influences and I think it's pretty cool when you combine that with After Forever.
What are the lyrics about?
Well the lyrics of “Transitory” umm... that's a tough question actually (laughs).
Why's that?
I have no idea.
You didn't write them did you?
No I didn't write them, our singer wrote them. Normally I know of every song and what they're about..
What's your personal interpretation?
I really can't. I should really check what it's about again, but right now it's a little bit hard actually (laughs).
You can't remember the lyrics can you?
Umm .... what does transitory mean?
Like a transition isn't it?
I don't know..
Well I don't know don't know then. I thought it was something to do with a transition, to evolve...
Yeah? I thought it was... Well..
That's what I thought when I heard the name anyway.
I'm thinking about it... The problem is I haven't got the CD here myself, so I can't check it. But yeah, shit, I always normally know it (laughs).
(laughs) Don't worry, your normal like everyone else.
Well... shit.
We all have these days.
Yeah, but I'm just..
Why was “Energize Me” chosen as the first single?
It's catchy, it's short and it's a powerful song, though other people that aren't in Metal can also relate to it.
What do you like about it?
The fact that it rocks. It's got a Rocky feel, and a very energetic chorus which the song really builds up to. I think it's a lot more professional than other things we did in the past; it's a different style and it's more catchy. It was certainly a challenge though to write such a song. It sounds simple song to a lot people, but to write a simple song is a hard thing to do.
How do you mean the song is more professional than some of After Forever's past songs?
The music and the vocals make each other stronger, and that's what it's about in music. You have to work together, and this makes total sense. When the vocals go up, the chords go down for example - it's more going forward, let me put it like that. In terms of sound a lot of cool things are also happening.
Do you feel it's important to have an energetic chorus then?
Yep.
How did that song come about then?
You mean “Energize Me”, right?
“Energize Me”, yes.
It was the toughest song to write. It was one of the first songs we had, and I was never satisfied with it.
Is there a reason why?
We changed the song totally, and at the end of the songwriting process the song got the shape it has now. It was really hard to write it, and it was really hard to find the balance in that song.
Are there songs like that on every album?
Yeah. It's always like that with a few songs.
Do you know about the lyrics on that song then, or not?
The central theme of the album is energy. “Energize Me” is about the energy nature can have on you; if you walk through a forest or whatever it can have a very energetic effect on you, and give you fresh energy to start over again.
Can you relate to those themes?
Yeah certainly. I love nature, and I love walking through the forest or whatever. I think when you have a lot on your mind and things like that, it's really refreshing and relaxing if you walk through a forest. All the things you see make you feel more relaxed, and gives you new hope.
Do you go for walks when you're trying to figure out a song structure or something?
I should do it more. Normally I really can't because when I'm thinking about a song, I can't stop thinking about it until I have a solution. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it works against you. Sometimes you spend a lot of time thinking, then you start doing something, you then listen to it the next day and you think “Ahh, that sucks”. Sometimes though you spend just one minute, and you have a more perfect solution.
Could you tell me about the video for “Energize Me”?
In the video you actually see the elements of nature, and they work in that video. You see fire, you see soil, you see wind, so basically you see different levels of power from nature. There's no real story, other than energy that comes from several sources of nature. That's how you have to see it.
Are there any other videos planned?
Yeah they are planned.
Is there a specific song?
No, not yet.
Is that something After Forever has to discuss?
Yeah. With bands it's also important to know what countries would like to have what etc.
Is it hard to decide on just one song, like to all be in agreement?
No, well...
Everyone has their favourites don't they, so...
Yeah, everybody has their favourites.
So I was just wondering if it's hard for you, Floor and all the other After Forever members to agree on just one song for the single or the video?
Most of the time, I take care of all that stuff, and check if most of the band agree with it. We talk about it and try to find a good way to have what we all want, though the most important thing is what makes sense. For example, America; what kind of song makes sense? What do they want? We have to investigate that, and the song that comes out of it. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't do any video clip. It has to make sense, that's most important.
Is it ok if we talk about your recent medical troubles?
Yeah, it's no problem.
First of all, could you tell me about it and give me an overview so to speak?
You have to see it like this; in my job as a full time teacher, as a bandleader, as a songwriter and things like that, for seven years I was extremely busy all the time. I never really thought about it, but this year I took a year off of teaching to give myself the band's full attention and it's always when you take a rest that you notice that something's wrong. I noticed I was really tired, overtired and really extremely tired. I got these blackouts and things like that, then I got really worried as a result, particularly when I had all kinds of pain in my chest later on. I heard that I was really overworked and had to take immediate rest, because otherwise something more severe would happen. That's the situation right now.
I read in the past that you had migraine troubles. Is that related to this or not?
Yeah. It's related in the way that you have a great weakness than normally to stress and things like that. This isn't because of the migraines, but because of the fact I did too much in the past.
It's not because of a family condition then? It's because of the fact you've been overworked?
Yeah exacty. It's pretty nasty because it's very physical, and it's also dangerous if you do too much.
Could you tell me what tests the doctors have done so far? I'm not sure if you wish to tell me or not. It's up to you really, but I thought I'd ask. If you don't wish to tell me it's fine.
The thing is they test a lot of things, such as your heart pressure, your blood and things like that. They can see if your physical circumstances are due to stress or something else. The result was that I was extremely overworked, and that I'd suffered from an extreme burnout. I really have to take care.
How have you been using the time off you've had from After Forever?
I'm trying to relax as much as I can. I'm not doing anything with music at this point, and also nothing concerning business things for the band except for a few interviews. I try to take my time, but also to visit as many friends as possible that I haven't seen for a long time that I had no time to in the past. I try to take the time for that now, and yeah, we'll see what happens next.
When you've been so busy, do you feel you've missed on family and friends?
Yeah cetainly.
You remind me of the sort of person who likes to get hands on with music, so is it difficult not to think “Hmm I'm gonna write a song today”? Is it difficult to think you're not going to do music?
That's why I know I'm really sick because it's not so difficult. Normally I would immediately think "I have to write a song again", "I have to do this" or "I have to do that", but right now I really..
You need a change for a short while is it?
I really need to not be busy with music right now, at least for the upcoming few weeks. I then want to continue at least on my project, but as for the rest I have to take it really easy. It will surely take a few months before I can get back in the band.
Do you feel the fact you've been overworked has affected your passion for music?
Well no not really, because I listen to music all the time. I listen to even more music now, so that hasn't decreased or something like that. I feel that my body has gone through too much though, and that I asked too much of my body. Maybe I was thinking too much about something or that kind of thing; composing is a lot of think work, so you have to be passionate when you compose.
So you feel this rest will make you passionate about music in a way?
Yep.
More refreshed?
Yeah.
Does it annoy you that you have to stay home, and the rest of your bandmates are touring and everything?
Of course it sucks, it's not fun. Sometimes though there are situations in your life that you cannot choose, and this is one of them.
So your philosophical about everything?
Yep.
How supportive have the band and label been about everything?
Very supportive. They support me, and they know it's serious. They know what person I am, they know that it's really serious and that it's necessary I take my rest. They're supporting me and hope I'll be back soon; they will give me all the time I need.
Are you in constant touch with them?
No not really, not now. I try not to be in touch too much because then I start worrying about things again and start thinking about them, and that's not what I should do right now.
So you're away from the music business at the moment are you?
Yep.
After Forever had to recently cancel a tour. Could you tell me about that, if you know anything?
Yeah, they had to cancel a tour because the organisation fucked it up. It's a stupid organisation with no talent at all.
I've heard they got a pretty bad reputation.
Yeah.. umm..
There's a few bands now I've read that have had to cancel their tours because of the same agency.
They are, from what I've heard, pretty stupid (laughs).
Have you used them before? Have you had problems with them in the past?
No. This is the first time we dealt with them, and the last time.
Do you know what After Forever are up to now the tour has been cancelled? Are they trying to get a new tour up and running?
No. They have three weeks off actually now.
Are they rehearsing, or doing new music?
Everybody is doing their own thing now. They have gigs in three weeks in Holland, and then they have the summer festivals.
They're just resting at the moment are they?
They're resting, or doing their own thing. Everybody is searching for things.
Are you going to join After Forever in October for the North American tour?
That's my goal.
There's nothing set in stone at the moment? It's not definite that you'll be on the US tour?
It's not definite, no.
So that's your goal?
Yeah, that's my goal.
You know what people are like with rumours and so on, so your position in After Forever isn't in question? You'll still be in the band so to speak?
Yeah, I'm the only original member of the band. I founded the band, and I'm the only one who's been there right from the beginning. It's very crucial for me that I will stay in the band, but I really have to take my time for that. It's really necessary to join the band again; I'm sure I can, but I need to take the time for it.
So sooner or later, you'll definitely join back with After Forever?
That's the intention.
Do you have a message for the fans that have wished you good wishes during this time?
Yeah, of course.
Do you have something to say to them?
You live in England right?
Next to England, yes. In the UK.
Everybody in that region is interested in After Forever. I first of all want to thank them very much, and give them my compliments due to the fact they were actually able to discover us. In the past distribution was really bad, so the support we get from fans of your region I really appreciate a lot as they have to do a lot to get our albums and things like that. We never came to England a lot of the time because we couldn't as there was no distribution. I hope to come back for all these fans more in the future, and we'll certainly do everything we can to make that possible.
Have Nuclear Blast helped in the UK market?
Yeah. I think they do a good job, and they try as hard as they can.
How did the HDK Project come about?
It's a far more extreme project than After Forever. It's more Metal oriented, and at this point I wrote and recorded all the songs. With Amanda Somerville I then wrote the lyrics and vocal lines. I have a lot of guests that I will reveal in the future, but it will really be a project and won't be going live. It will be a project that handles the more extreme side of Metal, but still in a very melodic way. I hope to finish the mix in the summer.
What does HDK mean?
(laughs) It's a working title at this point, but everything could still change. HDK was actually, before I started writing the songs, was meant to be something funny and not that serious. I called it Hate Death Kill in a funny way, because these are typical words you'll find in Metal lyrics. I changed it then to HDK for the MySpace site, though now I'll have to see what I'll do with it.
So HDK is serious then? It isn't some kind of comic Metal group is it?
No no no, now it's really serious; it's really serious Metal, really really extreme stuff. It's really serious.
Could you tell me about some of the people you've revealed thus far?
I've worked with the drummer of God Dethroned (Ariën van Weesenbeek), the bass player of Star One (Peter Vink), ex-Angra singer André Matos, Amanda Somerville, the singer of Dutch band 37 Stabwoundz (Mike Scheijen) and Callenish Circle singer (Patrick Savelkoul) who's a melodic singer from Holland. There will be some other, bigger guests, but I cannot reveal them because I am working on that.
Do you know when you'll be able to reveal them? Will it be say in a month, or two months?
Yeah, I hope in a month.
What do you feel these guest musicians add to HDK?
First of all, I think they teach me a lot and give me a lot of experience to write new songs for After Forever again, and it's a nice thing to learn a lot from other musicians. Secondly, they also add more dynamics to the project, especially Amanda Somerville who added a lot of melody. That's what makes it much different than all the other Extreme Metal bands; it makes it more versatile and more melodic without losing the real aggression.
Are you going to take what you're learning in HDK into After Forever?
Yeah, it depends if it fits. I will if it does, but some things just don't mingle in After Forever. I won't use them in After Forever, but maybe in another part of a project.
Could you tell me about some of the tracks you have so far?
Most of the material is modern Thrash related, but also more old school Thrash related. It has a little bit of technical things and a lot of groove things with a little bit of the Pantera style. It's mixed with melodic vocals though, or grunts and screams, more Hardcore voices sometimes and even Rap aspects. It's mixed and is a really unique combination of styles.
Do you like the Pantera style, and Dimebag etc.?
Yeah, I think it's really cool.
What do you like about the Pantera style?
First of all, I should tell you that have to tell you I have another interview upcoming.
Sorry about that. I'll just ask my last question after this then.
Yeah, that's no problem. I thought I should just tell you. I think Pantera was one of the best Metal bands around; it's a pity that Dimebag Darrell had to die because that was really... When they played it was really unique.
Where would you like to take your career in the coming years?
I just hope to have fun while I'm doing it, which is the most important thing. I hope to have the same devotion and the same passion that I had, and to be proud of what I'm doing. If that's the case then I'll feel happy myself, and that's good. I have a lot of dreams and wishes about what we can reach of course, but the most important one is that I just want to enjoy the things I do.
Do you feel you've been enjoying things in the past, or not as much as you should be?
I enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed it, but we had a lot of business problems with our old label, A lot of the things just weren't cool as a result, and I hope I can enjoy it a little bit more in the future.
So everything's sorted now is it?
Well..
Now After Forever are with Nuclear Blast, are all those problems in the past now?
Yeah, certainly certainly. It's a brilliant label.
Alright. Well thanks for the interview anyway, and it's been a pleasure.
Yeah, thank you a lot for the opportunity, and have fun writing the interview (laughs).
Don't worry, I will.
Oh cool, ok. Well thanks a lot, and have a great evening.
Yeah you as well. You're a nice guy, fair play.
Thanks a lot, and maybe we'll meet.
That'd be cool. Ok, take care. Bye.
Take care. Bye.