Lucem Fero | Interviews | Samael

“Slavocracy” - Samael frontman Vorph wishes to lead us through blurry views with seventh opus Solar Soul

By Anthony Morgan

If asked to name some of the premier Heavy Metal countries within the European borders, which would you name check in your response? Sweden? Definitely. Norway? Sure. Without trying to instigate a debate on which countries have offered more to the Heavy Metal globe, it's accurate to say all hold their own firm opinions upon the topic. If Switzerland's name entered the conversation, would you be the one righteously defending their status as a strong Heavy Metal area? The answer to that question isn't as obvious when compared to some other European places, though a little digging churns out the groups Hellhammer, Celtic Frost and Coroner to name some of the more known acts. It's likely a zillion demo tapes circulate their very underground scene, all with varying degrees of quality. One name that can proudly boast though is none other than: Samael.

Forming in the year of 1987, it wasn't until the early nineties that studio material saw issue. 1991's Worship Him and 1993's Blood Ritual are warmly embraced as classics in the underground, though it was third opus Ceremony of Opposites which lent the group an opportunity to grace the world with their tunes. Aware of the dangers of being pigeonholed, 1996's Passage adapted a different approach. Rhythm man Xy ditched playing the drums in favour of keyboards following the departure of keyboardist Rodolphe H., utilizing the oft discussed drum machine which has been a feature of studio recordings and live performances ever since. 1999 spawned Eternal, earmarked as a key moment when the group's approach began its various changes. This would be the final studio release Samael issued on the Century Media label (save for the Era One project), paving the way for a new millennial period where the group would keep ownership of their material. Five years of silence ended in 2004 with sixth opus Reign of Light, commonly cited as the album where Samael finally found its style. Where would Samael move forward from here though? Maybe June 2007 held the answer.

Extravagantly marketed as “a beautiful trip through lunar fields of desolation” by Nuclear Blast Records, the news bite surrounding seventh album Solar Soul proved intriguing enough to warrant further investigation. Having said that, Samael seems in opposition to this cast viewpoint, even though kindly allowing the German label to reserve their own opinion. In some respects this is irrelevant, since it'll be the regular album buyers who will ultimately cast their own judgment. Featuring eleven fresh tracks which all benefit from the familiar production of longtime collaborator Waldemar Sorychta (former Voodoocult guitarist), much of the album's current form took shape throughout the months of 2006 in various studios littered within their native Switzerland. Guest musicians in the guise of Vibeke Stene (Tristania vocalist) and Sami Yli-Sirniö (Waltari / Kreator guitarist) lend an appearance too, featuring upon the tracks “Suspended Time” and “Quasar Waves” respectively. Months of strenuous labour began paying dividends when Solar Soul finally arrived in June 2007.

Vocalist Vorph generously mused at great length with Lucem Fero via telephone conversation as concerns the numerous discussion points Solar Soul offers, revealing why it took quite some time to emerge as the finished article. The usual suspects such as details surrounding the recording process and personal contributions to the album all make appearances, lending a unique perspective on the musical stylings explored during this release. Other topics for perusal included; Vorph's thoughts on his personal evolution through Samael's twenty years, Samael's long term relationship with Century Media Records and their handling of the group's back catalogue, his recent penchant for Classical music and much more. An affable individual, it clearly shined through that Vorph feels 2007's Solar Soul opens strange and enchanting doors for the band.

Hello?
Tony?
Is this Vorph?
Yeah, this is Vorph.
How are you?
I'm fine. You?
Yeah, I'm great. Is it alright if I start the questions now?
Yeah, ok. Let's go.
Could you tell me how Solar Soul came about?
Yeah, sure. It was released on the 1^st of June, though this is an album we took more than a year to work on. We actually began working on the album in early February 2006 just after the tour we did with Obituary in Europe, and since then we haven't done anything else other than work on the album. We just worked on the songs until June when Waldemar came here to Switzerland - Waldemar Sorychta we worked with on the previous recording as well - and it took a couple of days here, actually four days, for Waldemar to check the songs together with us. We then started recording sessions in July, and that went all the way through to December. This wasn't continuous exactly because we had off time from the video we did, and we played a couple of shows and festivals. All in all though, we were mainly focused on the album last year.
Is there a reason why it took a year to come about? Is there a reason why it took a whole year to materialise?
Yeah, it did to make the whole thing. We did the mixing in January this year, and that was done once again in Stockholm, Sweden with Stefan Glaumann. We worked with him on Reign of Light as well.
Is it because you wanted this one to be just right, instead of releasing it when it was imperfect or something similar?
We actually recorded Solar Soul nearby where we live in different Swiss studios. We know the people from the city so we can go there whenever we want, and that is a good thing because you can go really deep into the details. The other thing was mixing it too much - Stefan had to say “Well that's good enough, I mean come on!” though I know Xy is really a perfectionist. He wants everything to be perfect, and that took quite some time.
Do you feel that's a good thing? That he's a perfectionist?
Yeah, in a funny way. He's not as much a perfectionist as I am, but at a certain point I always go “Yeah, that's good enough for me so let's go”. He's always trying to push himself a little bit in order to make a difference though, and you really have to pay attention to make that difference. I don't know how many people... when I actually listen to music, the general playing is what is more important for me. It's the feeling that the music gives you, and that's really paying so much attention to the perfection of it. It's more about feeling than about perfection.
Can you tell when a track is finished or do you need someone to tell you?
(Laughs) He did his thing actually, because we often tell him “that's done”. Xy then wanted to try these little details with the drums, and he went back to record some parts. He wanted to try having real drums on some parts of the album as well as the drum machine. There were a lot of things that he actually recorded that we didn't use in the mix, but it was really just to make sure that it was brilliant.
Were there any songs that didn't make it on the album?
No, as actually that's our way of working. I know there's bands that have a hundred songs and they just pick up the best ones. When we actually decide we got parts, and when we decide to put the parts together, we're going to work this until it's good enough to be a song. Whatever it takes we will make it happen, and we just pick out what's more interesting. We really go into it and make it happen, whatever it takes.
So say when you have a riff, you think “Is this good enough or not”?
That's something you never really know (laughs). It's about feeling, and when you feel “Well, I want to play this song live like this”. You feel that way because you got the power, you got the melody, you got the energy, you got the vibe, and you got the thing that drives you. The songs make me feel like I want to listen to the album or play it again and again, and I think that's the time when you say “Well, that's ok”. As I also mentioned before, we worked with Waldemar, but not on the whole thing. He actually checked every song with us though, and to have somebody from the outside with another point of view was important. Additionally, that helped us to see where we were going.
Did Waldemar approach producing Solar Soul any differently than he has with past albums?
It was pretty much the same as when we worked with him on Reign of Light, but previously it was different. Previously it was like Passage for example; the songs weren't finished, and we actually more or less finished the songs with him. Here for Reign of Light and this new album though, the songs were finished when he came and Waldemar just gave us advice about the construction and other different details. More or less, the songs were already put together.
What has the band been up to since the release of Reign of Light?
Yeah, we've tried to play as much as possible. We did a tour straight after the album came out which was the end of 2004, and in 2005 we actually played mostly festivals in the summer. During the spring of that year we went back to Moscow which is a place we hadn't been to in a long time, and we played a couple of other shows too. Also, as I mentioned before, in early January 2006 we did a tour with Obituary, and that was it actually. The rest of the time we spent working on the album more or less as I previously said.
Was it hard finding a label to release this particular album? If I'm right, you left your last label (Regain Records) after one album...
Yeah, well, actually no. The thing we're trying is to have our own thing, and we call this Galactical Records which isn't a real label. It's just to release material, but at least it makes us independent. It just licenses the record to other labels - we did this for Reign of Light with Nuclear Blast in America, and with Regain in Europe. This time though we knew it would be with Nuclear Blast in America once again, but it was a lot easier for us to have a deal for the whole world with them. Furthermore, it's one partner to work with. I got the feeling they feel more concerned about the album as they have it for the whole world. We've known the label for a long time, and they've been into the band. They've come to our shows many times in the past, so we knew they were interested. Really, I'm pretty happy with the deal we got with them and so far there is an energy there alongside a desire to do something with this album. That feels great.
Do you feel Nuclear Blast know what Samael's about?
Yeah, definitely. It's not like they're our best friend in the world, but we really know them well. Marcus (Staiger, Nuclear Blast founder) has been into Samael since the first album, so it's nothing new about the fact we know each other.
Did you consider joining any other labels for this album, or not?
With this one?
Yeah.
We did try to see where the interest was, and mainly there were a lot of alternative labels that were interested in the album. I think Nuclear Blast was probably the biggest structure, and with the history that we both have, I thought it was the best option.
Do you feel they're really trying to get Solar Soul out to the people then?
Yeah (laughs). Before, I really got that feeling. I know they did a lot of promotion in Germany, and we never had that much before. I know England is kind of hard for us, as we haven't played there much actually. We've played London once every album, twice maybe, and not really more than that. I hope it can change with this album though, and it would be great for us to play more shows in England definitely.
Do you think it would be possible to get a support slot with a bigger band in England?
If we get the opportunity, we're definitely going to go for it. So far though nothing has really come into the picture.
Are you keeping your ears open?
Yeah definitely. So far the main management we're working with is based in Germany, which maybe isn't the best way to get a tour in England. We'll see though.
How long is the deal with Nuclear Blast for? How many albums?
I'm not certain, though I think it is for three albums. I'm not certain, but I think so.
Are you going to see how it goes for these three albums now then?
Yeah, but I really got a good feeling. They're pretty much a Metal label, and they know how to market this type of music. Even though we're not exactly a traditional Metal band, I think this is really where we are rooted and where our base is. The core of the band is definitely Heavy Metal.
Are you hoping this will be a long term relationship?
Yeah. I can see it going on for quite some time.
What was recording like for this particular album?
Xy worked on the electronics at his home studio via computers; the drumming, the keyboards, the drum machine and everything was recorded at that place. We then used another studio which is small yet a good place nonetheless, where we we did the guitar bass. In order to cut the vocals, the cymbals and part of the drums, we went to a studio we haven't been before.
How was it recording in that place you've never recorded before?
It was nice. Actually, it's a bunch of young people that we know here and they took over the studio which had been around for a long time. There was this vibe that was really energetic because they're easy to work with, and they were really happy that we went there.
Did they give a bit of freshness to the album?
I couldn't tell really because the songs we actually made before we go to record, though elements are sometimes changed in the studio. The vibe was good though yes, and that could've eventually helped.
Did it change your feelings about recording? Did it give you something new? Did it make you happier?... Do you get what I mean?
It was pretty much relaxed yeah, but it's different than before though. Reign of Light and Solar Soul were both recorded here, but but apart from that we had recorded mainly in Germany. We would book the studio for three weeks or something similar, and it had to be done within this period. There was no way you could come back or whatever, and it's really a stressful thing. You really feel like it's like now or never, and I felt as though “If I don't put this down today then it's going to be tomorrow” or whatever.
Though you have the tracks written beforehand don't you?
Yeah, every song was finished when we... We don't compose in the studio.
Are you going to record in Switzerland again for the next album?
That could be, as it works for us. I don't know though. Maybe if we work with somebody from the outside that could change, but so far if we keep with this formula then it's probably going to be the same.
Are you definitely going to work with Waldemar again?
That's what I was eventually going to say, as I don't know. It works with us because we know each other pretty good, and he's a good friend of ours. I don't know if we actually need to have another producer to refresh the whole thing, but I know that we want to experiment with different things on the next album. That's because this one was pretty much us putting things back together - we tried many different things on the other album, and we had the feeling that Solar Soul would be something more compact and more to the point. We had the feeling that it would be an album that could define Samael, and that's what I like with this one. If somebody tells me “I don't know man, so which album should I check?”, then I will definitely refer them to this one. This is due to the fact it has many elements that we've had on previous recordings, and some fresh things as well. I think there's a good mix overall, and from my point of view this is the best thing we've done so far.
Do you feel this particular album is a good summation of Samael?
Yeah, I would say so.
Could you tell me about the cover artwork for the album?
Yeah, we work on different things but for the first time though there were different people working on it. We were supplying the direction in a way, and then there was this guy who's playing drums with Makro in his other band. This is a guy that we've known for a long time, but we didn't know he was actually really working in that area. He proposed himself to try something as well and came with different ideas - that's actually why we then decided to work further with him. We had at least thirty different covers which were all similar to the same one that we chose but with slight differences. I'm happy with it because it's the title I would say, and you still have this yin yang thing of sorts. That was a big part of Samael for a long time, and we still want to always try to find the correct middle between extremes. I guess that kind of shows in the cover in a certain way.
What are your personal thoughts on the cover? What does it mean to you?
We had the title, so we wanted to have something that could eventually fit the title. I think this looked more or less like a Sun. The first idea we had was then this thing to have an eye inside of a Sun, but that was a little bit too cheap though. With this one I believe you can eventually think this is an eye on a needle, but this is just a point. That's up to people to decide however they wish to see it.
It looks Egyptian to me, I don't know why.
That's right. You're not the first one to mention that there is something from North Africa, though I love Moroccan and I love Egyptian as well. It wasn't on purpose, but maybe it was from the guy that did the cover. From us though, our reaction was “Woah, that looks cool”.
What feelings do you express with the title track “Solar Soul”?
It was first the title of the song before it eventually became the title of the album. I had different ideas, though the others were not really with me on that one. Xy was the one said “This song's got a good title that could be the title of the album”, and I actually followed him on that one. I got the feelings first from just the music; I thought the general vibe of that song was really positive, uplifting, almost shiny, and that's where I got the title from. It kind of makes me feel like I want to go out, I want to do something and I want to try myself at something. I like the fact that the first word of the song is just “Go” which I think is a pretty good idea.
Is it almost about having a Sun within yourself so to speak?
Yeah. The song is pretty much an abstract concept, and it's not even something I especially believe in. This is the kind of aura though that people just have in them, and there are people sometimes that have this radiating vibe. That's probably happened to every one of us at a certain point. Whenever things are going a good way for you, you feel like you couldn't have a care in the world. Fuck 'em (laughs).
(Laughs) How would you describe your vocal contributions to this album?
I've tried to work on the chorus as much as possible because we did a project before Reign of Light just with Xy (Era One), and that was more electronic. I've tried different things with my vocals. I wanted to really work on the chorus, and that was the part I worked the most. The others in the band really wanted me to have rougher vocals like it was before, so I've tried to have a bridge between a nice chorus and maybe a more aggressive verse.
So it's a mix of the old and new so to speak is it?
Yes, it could be seen that way; not only with the vocals, but with almost everything on this album pretty much. We didn't want to have an experimental album, but we wanted to have an album with which we could say “That's us”. When you experiment it's always yourself trying to be different than you are, to see where you can go and where you could eventually feel comfortable. With this one we were really on territory that we knew, so it's not really experimental.
So you're going back to Samael's roots then is it?
I don't really like the idea of coming back because for me it's like you would be going reverse in your life. We actually tried to, as you mentioned before, have the old things with the new things mixed together in some ways.
As you worked on choruses, did it improve them? Are there better choruses on this album?
I think every song has a chorus on this album, and that wasn't the case before. This is more constructed - I don't really like the word “Pop”, but this a little bit of the idea. The songs are not really longer than four minutes or so, and they very much construct this idea so that they're remembered easily in some ways. We still wanted to have it be a surprise though, and not to have just the great Pop thing that you hear once and remember forever. We still wanted to have things to try, and and have a surprise. This is what I like when I'm listening to music; to be surprised.
Do you feel these songs are more accessible because they're four minutes or so long?
That could be. It was the idea to work in that format, but you never know because I always like different things. For example, the last record that I really got into was the latest Opeth album (Ghost Reveries) which is really more into this kind of epic and progressive type of thing. That's totally the opposite to what we actually worked on with this album. It just likely happened that we decided since Eternal I think to construct our songs more and more, and I think with this one...
So you feel things have changed since Eternal do you?
Yeah, the approach was changing there and it kept on changing. I think on this one though, we probably succeeded in doing it the way we wanted to do it back then.
So you'd say that Solar Soul is the album you would've liked Eternal to be?
(Laughs) Maybe in a way, yeah.
How have you evolved over the last few albums as a vocalist?
Well, we mentioned Eternal and the fact that this is the first time I've tried to do choruses a little bit more. I've also mentioned briefly the project with Xy, Era One, which is this electronic thing that was just drumming and vocals. In some respects that actually urged me to try something, but the music was so naked so I had to do more with the vocals. I've tried to also develop rhythm which is amongst things that I wasn't really aware of before, and that helped me. It actually sounds like “Moongate” from Reign of Light or “Solar Soul”; they're pretty much rhythmical with the vocals, and that was something new for me.
Do you feel more comfortable and confident as a vocalist nowadays?
Yeah, I got more control on my vocals. In the early days I was just pushing it to the extreme, though you cannot really control it because it's not the same. Nowadays, I guess I can control it a lot more.
Are you more aware of your strengths and weaknesses now?
(Laughs) I try (laughs). When you're recording it's ok because there's time, but with a live performance there is sometimes the desire to take it to the limit. There's a gig the day after though, so you should know where your limits are.
Do you feel these songs are going to work better live?
I hope so because so far we've only played two songs live, and they are “On the Rise” and “Slavocracy”. I really got this feeling that they stand out from the rest, and it's like “Wow”. That's maybe because they're new, but this isn't the first time we've been playing new songs. With this album I got the feeling “Wow they worked”, and they make me feel like “Wow”. It's one step higher from the rest, which is the feeling I've got. I don't know how people will react to it, but so far the reaction has been great.
Could you tell me about some of the lyrical influences on this album?
Yeah, there's some subjects that we've worked with on the other album as well. Like I mentioned before, those subjects are this kind of desire to find the right balance between opposites, the quest, the love quest, the inside universe and other similar themes. These themes are present on this album as well. There's also new topics that we haven't dealt with before, like for example in the song “Valkyries' New Ride”. This is a song about war, and that is a subject we've never dealt with before. It's not about the war in Iraq especially, but that was what actually made me feel that maybe it was about time to say something.
You said that “Valkyries' New Ride” isn't directly about the war in Iraq, so I'm wondering which war is it about?
It inspired me to write the song, but it's about war in general. Any war..
So you can apply it to any war in general?
You can apply it to the idea yes. There's this other song called “Slavocracy” which has a sort of political undertone to it, and that's something which we've never had before. Basically that's a dark side of democracy; people think they're to say what they feel, but actually they just reap what they're being told.. more or less.
Is there a reason why you do deal with universal themes? You said about the “inner universe” and so on?
I think that universal theme was a good metaphor for the inside universe. Whenever you start to think for yourself, sometimes it's almost scary that you got control. The further you go, the more you might feel. I think there's a good connection, at least on a telepathic level, between the inside and the outside.
What musical sounds and cultural influences does the band incorporate on Solar Soul? I've heard about this Eastern influence particularly..
There's this song “Quasar Waves” which is based around the sitar line. We already had some Middle Eastern / Oriental melodies on Reign of Light, and that I like a lot because this is not a part of my cultural background. I wasn't listening to that kind of music when I was a kid and neither when I was a teen - it just came later. It puts me on unknown territory in some ways, and that opened doors to the imagination for me in some respects. If I listened to a straight Rock song it wouldn't take me much further than where I was standing, and that's because there isn't anything that memorable surrounding it. These kind of melodies are very hard to explain, but..
Do you feel it's better to think outside the box?
Definitely. There's no doubt.
Sami (Yli-Sirniö, guitarist) of Kreator plays on “Quasar Waves” doesn't he? Am I right?
Yeah, the guitar player from Waltari. Sure.
How did that come about?
Sami actually played sitar on Reign of Light as well, and that was because Waldemar knew him. We had keyboard sitar on some songs, and when Waldemar heard it he went like “That's good. You should have a real guy playing it”. We replied “Well, we don't know a real guy that could play sitar”, so he said “I know Sami, and I'm sure he would be interested in the idea. Just get in touch with him”. So I think Xy called him one day, and he just spoke about it a little. Sami recorded his parts in Finland and sent them back, so we didn't actually meet for that. When we had this song “Quasar Waves” on the new album, we raised the idea of working with him again and he said yes.
How do you feel Sami's contribution to “Quasar Waves” compliments it?
I think it adds something definitely. The first time we worked together, he was pretty much playing exactly what the keyboard sitar was. Here he followed the lines, but there is a little experimentation somewhere in the song. I don't know if people will pay attention to it and hear it, but I hear it and I love it. It really adds something definitely.
Are you a fan of Sami's musical works in the albums he's played on?
You mean his work in Waltari, or..
His work in general. Are you fan of his music, and what albums he's made?
I didn't really know what he was doing. I just knew he was the guitar player of Waltari, and that he was touring with Kreator. As I mentioned though, we never met when he recorded the first time. We met him after the recording of Reign of Light a couple of times during festivals, and we all got together. It seemed to me logical to ask him to be on this album, and when we saw him we knew we would do another song with him.
In what ways is this new album “heavy and compact”?
I think there's more guitar because there's something I didn't like about the way Reign of Light went out. We had the feeling that the guitar was a bit too polished, not rough enough and not like they would be when we played them live. We knew we would ask them to put the guitar level a little bit louder in the mix, so we thought we'd maybe work the guitar more. I got the feeling this is probably the album that we've actually worked the most with guitar.
So you feel there's more of a Rock sound to this album in a way? To the guitar?
I don't know if people got the feeling as well, but yeah definitely. That was the idea actually.
Do you feel there's a cold atmosphere on this album, or not?
Not really. I've read things that.. well, even Nuclear Blast sell the album as being cold and dark.
That's why I'm asking about it.. was just wondering.
This is not the feeling I got, no definitely not. I think maybe it's a little bit darker than Reign of Light, but it has the light and shadow. I think the mix is really good between those two, and I like this a lot. To me it's not cold, but then it's up to the people to decide.
I was a bit curious by the press release to be honest. It says the album is “a beautiful trip through empty lunar fields of desolation”.
I've read that, though this isn't our idea. Probably they feel that way listening to it, but this is not how I feel about the album.
Could you tell me about your favourite song on Solar Soul?
That's a tough one. I don't know how I feel, I really don't know. I mentioned we played two songs live already, and I know “On the Rise” is a song that's working very good live. I wouldn't say this is my favourite, but this is the one I enjoy playing live the most so far.
Why do you enjoy playing “On the Rise” live particularly? What does it have that say the other tracks don't in some respects, or not?
For that one.. the “On the Rise” song.. I would say it's interesting because it's like a three four song, and that's different from all the rest. Then you got this kind of.. it's very curved. The verses are almost smooth, and there isn't much guitar. When the chorus is then kicking, it's pretty heavy. I like this contrast.
Are you getting good feedback for that song live then so far?
Yeah.
What are the lyrics about in “On the Rise”?
What inspired me to write the lyrics was whenever you're going to do something very important or very dangerous. Whatever it is, whether it's jumping from a bridge with this elastic thing or whatever, there's this rush of energy at a certain point. That's really what the song is more or less about. You feel like you're made of steel, and nothing can happen to you.
So it's about feeling really confident is it?
(Laughs) This is about the feeling of being invincible, yeah.
Do you feel it's good thing to feel invincible then, or not?
When it does happen, it's good. You can be real lucky sometimes if this about a fight (laughs) and you might maybe use your mind a little bit (laughs). It doesn't happen so often, so when it happens it makes me feel good in some ways.
Do you feel it's a bad thing in some respects? If you feel invincible, it might hurt more when you lose or something similar?
(Laughs) Yes, probably. The song is basically about the feeling; that kick and that rush.
Why was “Slavocracy” chosen as the first video?
I don't really know why this is the first song actually, though we planned on choosing the first video before we did the final mix. We sent three songs to the record company before we did the final mix in order to give them an idea of what the album was all about. If we had to do a rough mix for it, we thought one of those three, and that was actually “Solar Soul”, “Promised Land” and “Slavocracy”... the first three songs actually.. we thought “well, we might as well put one of those in to the record company in order to let other people check out what the album's going to be like”. Whatever though; we chose that one, yet we could've chosen another. Of course though, then people from the record company thought “Well, that's a good one” because they'd heard that one before. I pretty much like every song on the album, so I didn't really care which song would be the first video. I think for the video though, this one is probably a good idea because I like the way the video came out. We worked with somebody from Germany for the first time. We just got the song together, and I like the way it came out. It's different from what I've seen before, and I cannot fully get behind a video which is something I've already seen.
In what ways is the video different?
The physics of it. It isn't the usual 3D animation you will have in the background. We haven't been working on a blue screen, but on a screen that already had paintings on it. It was more different from how I knew a video is worked, so I like the experimentation on it.
Does the video have a theme or a storyline to it?
As I mentioned with the topic of “Slavocracy” itself, we've tried to augment the image to compliment the lyrics.
Could you tell me more about the lyrical themes of “Slavocracy”? You said its about democracy and how it's not what it seems, so could you expand upon that?
It's the dark side of democracy. I would say it's in fact like a bad mutation of democracy. To me democracy is one people and their point of view, but the point of view is theirs. They stamp on about this, and that's it because they want to make a point. If that could eventually be turned into a slavocracy, that would be people that just feel “Well, they're bringing us somewhere and they're saying it on TV, so why not?”. They just go with it, and go with the flow. You don't think anymore, and then you see nothing is no longer yours. You just put up with it and obey at the end instead of making a point, and that's pretty much what the song is about.
Do you feel it's becoming more and more socially relevant? “Slavocracy”?
I hope not, but I feel it around me. I don't know if this is the dominant thing, but it is there. There's a lot of people who don't ask questions anymore, and that's because it's easier - I know it's easier. Life's not easy though, I mean, come on!
Do you feel it's becoming like a Big Brother state or something?
Wow! That wasn't exactly the idea, but yes there is something of that. We are assisted to be taken by the hand, and to do whatever - to be explained things and so on. Once it's so easy though, you understand things. I don't think people are stupid, but the thing is when there is such low entertainment on TV nowadays then it just puts everything on a lower key. I don't think this is something good.
Do you feel it's about say the government reaction to terrorism, and like how they've become more strict on people's human rights and things? Or not?
Well, to me it's not just the government; it's the people themselves because they accept it, and that's the problem. It's always easier to say “well, you know, that's the big guy”. No no, not here. Not where we live, not in England, not in Switzerland, not in France and not in Germany because we're all free countries. It's the people who decide, and once you decide it's ok that somebody will tell you what to do, this is giving up your freedom. This is not something I would like to live through.
So you feel people should stand up for their freedom?
Yeah, themselves.
I mean they should get up and...
We're not under control, but we have to be careful. This is just what I'm trying to say with the song, and this is also something I'm trying to say to myself to remember it as well.
Are there any other videos planned?
We had the chance to do one video, and that was part the deal with the Nuclear Blast. If the album does good, then I would love to do another one. That doesn't just depend on us though.
If it does good, and you are able to choose another one, which one would you choose to do a video for?
At this point probably “Solar Soul”. It is easier, but I still have some ideas that could be done with that video. I don't know though, as that's just me. We'll have to discuss within the band, and make sure we all agree on that.
What ideas would you have for that video, if it was made? What do you see inside your head visually for the video?
Well, that's a difficult question definitely. It's hard in some ways to actually write it down for myself. I see things, but it's pretty much not concrete. I would say something more colourful though.
Why did you decide to use real drums on some tracks upon Solar Soul?
We've been asked that by many people, but it doesn't matter. Waldemar said that we should just give it a try, and there are maybe one or two little parts that we used on the album afterwards in the mix. We did try a lot more than that, but there is something.. Xy's programming the drums, so the drums are real perfectly played. Xy would then have to play as good as the drum machine, and then the drum machine would keep up that feeling. Maybe that eventually gave a more human feeling on the two parts we used, though I'm especially not convinced. We gave it a try at least, so..
Are you going to still going to keep with the drum machine for future recordings?
That was kind of a tough decision at the time we had to take it because we were pretty much alone against anyone else. The record company, the management and the agents were all saying “You can do this in the studio, that's no problem. Don't take this out live though, as that's not going to work.” We decided that if we do it in the studio, we're going to do the same live - that's what we did, and it works. So far this is over ten years we've been playing in that kind of setup, and that works.
Have you had a problem with human drummers then? Have you thought “this doesn't sound good enough”, or something similar? In the past?
When Xy was playing real drums?
Yeah.
Not really, and that wasn't the reason why he actually switched from drums to the drum machine. We had a keyboard player before, and he decided to leave the band. Xy is composing all by himself, so he composed the keyboard, the drum, the guitar and everything. He could play the keyboard, but then we would've had to find a drummer and this Xy didn't want. Xy didn't want to have somebody in charge for the rhythmical part of the band, so we went with this idea. That's how we actually started this. With the drums, I like the fact we took this option because I think it makes us different from the rest in some respects. I haven't seen any other band doing it actually. The Sisters of Mercy are working with the drum machine live, but we are not that close to them. I think personally the premise we're working on is over the top compared to what they're doing.
Is Xy a key ingredient to Samael then?
I wouldn't say a key ingredient, but this is something that makes us original - one of the things that is.
What do you feel the drum machine gives to Samael's sound? What does it add to it?
Maybe at the beginning it gave this coldness to the band, so maybe that's how people from Nuclear Blast decided that Solar Soul is a cold album. I would agree as concerns Passage that it is really to the point, is really martial and is square - that maybe took out the human thing to it. I think since the time we began working with it though, we've actually worked a lot more on programmation to make it more interesting and not just a flat drum machine. I think this is another way to work.
So you feel the drum machine has a lot of character to it?
I think it succeeds in making it a lot more interesting than usual programmation.
When the next album gets released, are you going to keep an eye on the press release and have more of a control over it? Are you going to make sure it gets the message right?
I cannot do that, though I've recieved some of the magazines which have been sent to our address. Whenever I'm in a magazine, I will read it if I understand the language. You cannot really do something to make people get it directly, and I'm not even sure this is important because when it's done we know what we wanted this album to be. It is what we wanted it to be, and it belongs to the people who buy it. Once you got the album, you decide what it is for you. This is no longer our thing.
I thought that maybe you don't like the fact that the press release says it's a desolate album.
(Laughs) I'm not agreeing with it, but it doesn't bother me that much. I think it's pretty warm if you ask me, but that's a different point of view (laughs).
Do you have anything written for the follow up to Solar Soul?
No. Nothing.
Is there any direction you're going to go in?
We haven't started working on anything.
Why didn't you extend your deal with Regain Records beyond one album?
We just had a one album deal, so we were free after that one. They made us an offer for the other album, as well as other record companies. As I mentioned though, we thought Nuclear Blast would be the best option. We will work with Nuclear Blast once again in America as already planned, but we thought that's probably the best thing we could do.
You were still happy with Regain Records marketing?
I think they tried to do the best possible, and I'm not unhappy with what they did. They're still not as big as Nuclear Blast, so they don't have as much power to put an album on the market. They did a real good job though, no doubt.
So you feel you just outgrew each other?
Yep.
Do you know if Samael is hesitant to sign a long term record deal these days, like a five or ten album deal or something similar?
I hope a ten album deal doesn't exist (laughs)
I've heard of an eight album deal.
We were under contract to Century Media Records, which was our previous record company. That was a bad option, and I could tell this really wasn't good. You can never expect to know where you're going to be in ten years from now, and seven albums is almost ten years or even more. It depends how long it takes you to write an album, how much you're going to tour and all those things, but I really don't think this is a good thing. It doesn't really make the label interested to really do a lot for you because you're going to be there anyway; if the album is doing good then that's ok because they just get their money back and make a little profit. They know they're going to have the next one. If there's just a limited time, probably they will try to do as much as possible with the time they got. If this is good then, you're going to keep working with them.
So because it's a three album deal then, you feel they're really keen to make you happy then so you sign for yet another three records after this is up?
As I mentioned, we don't have the same kind of deal that we had before. This is a license deal which means we are still the owner of the recordings. We just license it for a period.
How long's that period? Do you know?
(Laughs) That's in the contract, so I'm not supposed to say. It's not forever though.
Is this new license deal a lot better for you financially then?
It's better because they gave us a good deal, but you take some more risk I would say. Financially you take some more risk, but at least we have the control on the masters. That means if we finish the deal with them and will no longer work with them for example, they will not have the right to have a best of compilation or to release things afterwards. The recordings belong to us, and that wasn't the case with Century Media. They had the right to do whatever with our back catalogue, and they actually did a best of record (Aeonics - An Anthology). They can do more if they want too. This is something we don't want, and we wish to have control of our music.
Did that piss you off? The best of release?
Not really, as they told us they wanted to do it. I didn't like the idea that much, but what can you say? Century Media then asked if we wanted to have an input into it, and because we knew it would be released anyway we thought “well, it would be better if we tried to make sure it's really looking good”. They sent us a couple of copies, and I had to admit I thought “Wow, it looks good” when I got my copy. I'm not ashamed of that. If somebody doesn't know the band, they'll buy this just to have a view of what we did in the past. This is a good release, but for somebody who has every record that we've released it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing new on it.
Do you feel it sent out the wrong impression, that say Samael has had its best days? Do you feel it sent out that wrong impression?
I don't think so because this isn't the feeling I got - I'm really happy with Solar Soul as I mentioned. I don't know how people are recieving it and how they feel about it, but to me it's really the best thing we've done. I've got a good feeling, and I'm happy with it.
How would you summarise Samael's time with Century Media?
Wow.. umm.. we were really happy to be on the label when we first signed because they were new, and there was this energetic feeling that they wanted to do something. By the last album though, things had gradually changed; people went out, there were different people we had to work with and they moved their seat from Germany to America. That was messy at a certain point, and I think they're doing better nowadays. They got good bands again which wasn't the case for some time, but I'm glad I'm out of it.
Do you feel Century Media got behind Samael during the final years of your relationship with them?
It wasn't the best years we had together (laughs) at the end, though all in all it was ok. If you asked me to summarize, I'd say it was a little bit more than ten years we worked together. I'm not trying to complain, and this is behind us so it's ok.
Oh ok. Do you feel they'd maybe lost the passion they had in the beginning?
That often happens. The thing is they signed us without much expectations, and that was the good thing in a way because every album we after each album we released with them we were further up from the ground so they were happy. After two or three albums, the record company said “Wow, we're surprised you're doing that good”. We said “You should be aware that we could be something more, and maybe just back us up a little bit more”. In that we meant not just throw the album out on the market and say “Wow, good”. That was the feeling we got at the end, but they knew we would sell albums though.
Do you feel they're handling Samael's back catalogue well, or not? Are you supportive of the reissues?
The reissues? I don't know when they're doing it because they changed their distribution. They're working with EMI now, so I guess every single recording they did in the past will be re-released. I just don't think about it though, as my concern is really what we're doing now with the new album.
When they reissue them, is there going to be loads of bonus material?
I don't think so (laughs). As I mentioned before, we actually record the songs and we put them on the albums.
Are they going to put demo versions of songs on them?
Not really (laughs). We'd never give them, and I don't like that. I know they spoke one time about releasing Passage together with Exodus which would actually make sense because they were recorded together. That'd be ok, and that would actually be bonus material in a way. That doesn't bother me, but they don't have extra material from what they already got.
Do you feel Samael found its style on Reign of Light, or not?
Yeah, I would say so. We had a style, but it was more... I see it something more like this.. There are the first three albums, and we knew what we wanted to do. We wanted to do something extreme and dark, and that's pretty much the idea that we started up this band with. I think with Ceremony of Opposites we succeeded in doing that, and we felt “well, this is an album that competes with anything we've done up to this point”. That's when we decided we should try to find our own way and do something different, something from ourselves and something that didn't sound like the things we listened to. As a result we worked on Passage and tried to do something as different as possible, and from then we just went onwards. I think Passage was pretty much the album that first worked well with the drum machine, and it had a lot of keyboard arrangements. We did try to work on rhythm with Eternal, so there are more dense things on that album. We had this kind of .... I don't know... Oriental flavour to some songs on Reign of Light, and all these elements are actually part of the new album. Reign of Light was probably more focused, but I think Solar Soul is really to the point.
How do you feel Samael in 2007 differs to Samael in 1987? How do you feel the band differs from twenty years ago?
I suppose I'm not the same guy anymore - I was sixteen when I started up the band almost (laughs). I'm not a grown up man now, but I'm no longer a kid. Yeah, I'm different definitely; I went through different things in my life, I've learnt different things and I've met different people. I think my life is richer, and all the music is richer than the way it used to be.
Do you feel you've learnt a lot of things over the years?
Yes certainly. I'd like to say that we started up with almost an empty bag, and on the way we put things in this bag. Nowadays I have the feeling that we got something; we got some content, and some material.
How do you feel your perspective has changed in that time, over twenty years?
It hasn't much probably because I cannot see things in a bigger scale nowadays than I used to in the past, and I suppose this is a part of growing up. This is the way I see it.
What are your thoughts on the first two Samael albums (1991's Worship Him and 1992's Blood Ritual respectively) looking back?
On the first one we didn't know nothing, but we had the desire to do it. I didn't know how to play, nor did I have much to say. I hadn't gone through anything in my life that important, so my lyrics were pretty much just things I was reading at the time which was occultism books. I was really interested in that. I thought that was things that grown ups thought was cool, and something you had to check for yourself. I was really into that, but then later on I thought there was not much in that. There were elements where I decided to think outside the box, but I was pretty much in a position with something. Now I'm no longer thinking in a position, and whenever I find a resistance to something I try to find another way instead of just fighting it.
Do you feel those first two albums are classic albums, or not?
That isn't the way I see it, so I don't think so. Some people think they are, but I think they were just the start. It was us trying to make something out of nothing for me (laughs).
So you feel they were just you trying to find your feet then is it?
Yeah, definitely. That was us just trying.
Could you tell me about the moment you thought “I want to be a musician”, yourself I mean? When you thought you wanted to join music?
It wasn't like from one day to another, but it was really early on I think.
Was there a moment, or something you can pinpoint?
I don't know, maybe I was ten, twelve or something. It was when I started to listen to music for myself. My father was listening to a lot of music, but it wasn't much Rock music. My first bands were Kiss and AC/DC, and that was really the basis. Once I started listening to that, I thought “Wow! That's what I want to do. This is cool”. It took some time until the day I found people I could eventually play with and so on. That was really in the early days.
Why did you decide that you want to be a musician? What were your reasons in the beginning?
I just thought it was the coolest thing in the world, probably (laughs).
What did your family and friends think when you told them you want to be a musician?
My family were not surprised at all, but they just tried to discourage me because they felt I couldn't do something with music. They thought I should first get a job, and then eventually play music for myself or my hobby. My friends actually all knew because I was just asking them to play with me. In the early days I remember I was trying to convince my friend that he could eventually buy a drum set, and become a drummer. He had no intentions to do so, but I was just trying to find people to play with.
Could you tell me about some of the first bands you were in? Teenage bands?
Teenage? When I started with Samael, around that time I was just looking for the more extreme in our band. My choices were Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer, early Slayer and music like that.
Were you in any bands before Samael then, or was Samael your first band?
(Laughs) Actually I had a band which didn't do anything - we just practiced for a year together and ended up with nothing but two songs. We didn't have the same ideas, so that's when I decided that I would try something different and try to find my own. We didn't record anything, though I tried at least.
You mentioned some of the bands you were influenced by, so could you tell me why you particularly looked up to them? Slayer, Hellhammer and all those bands?
I thought they were the coolest. A lot of my friends listened to Hardcore, and I never liked it. I liked the aggression and the power of that music, but I missed the dark, imaginary and almost scary element. It wasn't there, and I was looking for something like that. I did listen to some Hardcore later on, but not much because it wasn't really my culture.
Is there a specific singer you looked up to particularly?
Right now?
Not right now, but at that time. Was there one you really idolised so to speak?
Quorthon from Bathory for the vocals I think was a big influence. To me, at that time, he was probably the guy who pushed the boundaries the furthest in terms of that style of music.
Do you feel he would've offered some good music to the world if he was still alive in 2007?
I have to be sincere with you and say I love his work very early in Bathory. I loved the second album The Return (1985), and I thought Under the Sign of the Black Mark (1986) was really over the top, fantastic. Blood Fire Death (1988) was still good, but then I lost it. This whole mythological theme wasn't my thing, and I just didn't get it. I know now what it's all about, but I didn't have a connection to it.
How would you like Solar Soul to be remembered in the coming years?
I don't know, but I'd like people to check it now (laughs). For me I would prefer them to check it now, and then I don't know.
How would you like them to look back on it in years to come?
I'd like to see this album as the end and the beginning at the same time. The last albums offered a certain something, and the presence of another. I don't know, but to me it is a key album somewhere. We would have to do others so I could tell you exactly where it stands, but I think this a very personal album. This is my story.
Do you feel the album after Solar Soul is going to resemble it, or is it going to be totally different?
We're going to try to expand on it a little with the next one, because on Solar Soul we wanted to have something which said “Yeah. This is us.” Now we can try to gain some experimentation and push the envelope a little.
Is there anything you're going to experiment with on the next album particularly?
We're discussing it right now, but we're not going to start to work on the new album until next year I think. Now we're just toying with ideas, thinking “Yeah. This we could try”. We'll see what's going to be left when we really start to work on it.
Are there any ideas you'd like to experiment with? At the moment?
For almost the last two years now, I've just listened to Classical music. I love this guy from Russia called Shostakovich. There's something I like with his music being melodic, but you got this quail thing I like a lot as well. I'm not saying we're going to incorporate Shostakovich into our music, but this is an influence I speak of that I would love to be on the next record.
Is there a reason you'd like to do Shostakovich and that Classical influence on the next album? Is there a reason why you'd like to go in that direction?
With Dmitri Shostakovich I really see two things. He did these things for Stalin which weren't that good to me, and it really sounds like military music. Some of it though is not that bad actually, and I like the musicality of it. I thought there were things that give me chills, so this is good then.
Do you feel there's the danger of some people taking it the wrong way because Shostakovich made music for Stalin? Do you feel it makes Samael open to accusations of fascism?
He has been accused of that for a long time, though it's always easy to judge people when you're not there and you're sitting on the outside. Definitely I don't think it was good to do that, but I don't know what other option he had. I know some of the Russian composers left, and they travelled the world. Some went to America, while some stayed in Europe. Prokofiev even went back there, but he didn't compose for the Party. Having said that, he did compose things though which agreed with the Party on some points. Still, he did some great things. I'm not trying to condemn people for the things that aren't good. I just try to see what good things they did, and this interests me more.
But do you feel if you incorporate Shostakovich's influence, do you feel the critics will say Samael are Communists or something similar?
Hmm.. I don't know.
You don't know do you?
I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say it's an influence (laughs), and then nobody will even notice.
Fuck 'em, I wouldn't worry about them.
(Laughs).
Has the band been accused of promoting certain ideas in the past? Could you tell me about your thoughts on that?
Not really, and I've never really had this feeling that we've been accused. I know with Ceremony of Opposites there was some problem in Germany for that album. We were touring with Cannibal Corpse who got these gory lyrics and so on, and there was this girl who is a teacher in Germany. She actually hit on songs of Cannibal Corpse that the kids brought to her to provoke her probably, but she decided to do something against it. As we were actually touring with them, she actually decided to hit on us. Ok, so we've been part of this tirade against young kids playing music which portray other young kids in a bad way. I mean, whatever.
Do you feel it was bad timing because they thought “Oh, they're touring with Cannibal Corpse so they must be just as “bad” as them”? Do you feel it was that, that they tarred Samael with the same brush?
That could be, but it doesn't bother me that much. At the time it pissed me off though, I have to tell you the truth. It brings back my memories that there are still people like that. Sometimes when you are surrounded by people who are open minded and, as you say, think outside the box, you forget that there are people who are really going by the book. Maybe sometimes it's good that you remember that.
What do you feel about music being blamed for violence in general then? Certain religious people say it's Heavy Metal music that causes violence in teens, so what's your perspective on it?
(Laughs) That's definitely ridiculous to me of course. I suppose if you're drawn towards to music that is violent, then this is because you feel it in yourself. Music is just reflecting what you feel, and not the other way around. For example, if you really like brutal, heavy music and then you're going to be played easy listening music, as a consequence you get crazy just because it doesn't fit your feelings. I think you go to the music that represents what you feel inside, and not the other way around.
How do you feel about people who like lots of different music? I like Heavy Metal music, but I also like soft music as well.
I don't have to teach anything to anyone, but personally I think the more different music you can listen to the better. Especially, I've been pretty much listening to only Heavy Metal for over a decade. That was part of my mind set up to say “well, other things are no good”, and I didn't even pay attention to it. I then opened up a little bit more though. When you come back to that music that you loved in the first instance, then you will just enjoy it a lot more. You will actually find in that music things that you haven't before.
So you feel it's very important to check out new music?
I do. At least for me it is, yes.
Where would you like to take your career in the coming years?
I don't know how much we actually are in charge of it. What I know is, as I've mentioned many times during this interview, I love this new album. We really want to play as much as possible for it. We haven't played America for Reign of Light, so we want to really go there more than once for this album. As I've mentioned also, we're going to try to play in England more than just once. That's not just depending on us, but definitely we're going to try to go as much as possible. Again, there's going to be time to work on the next one. I couldn't really tell you; it's not like we got a plan. We're going to see where this album is going to take us, and then we'll see from there where we can go.
Is there anything you want to achieve before you retire in music?
I got no intentions to retire, so hopefully I'm going to do this or something else. With music, I had a certain time. It was after Eternal when things were not really in the minute for us that I thought I should maybe find another option in my life, and the only thing I thought was to do a project with Xy. That was still music, so I think it's pretty much in me.
Alright. Well, could I rephrase it? Is there anything you want to achieve in music before you die? Is there anything you haven't done which makes you think “I'm going to do this before I pass on”?
(Laughs) I hope we're going to make some good records, and the more the better. It's not like we've settled something and we want to achieve that. We want to do the best record possible, connect with the people and make something that matters. That's a fantastic feeling, yes.
Do you feel Samael has a few more good records in itself?
In the future you mean?
Yeah, in the future. Do you feel Samael has got some more good records to come?
Well, I really hope so. I've got good feelings, at least for the next one. This one really has got something in me though I would say.
Do you have a message for the fans at all?
It's kind of what I mentioned before. I hope to have the chance to meet the people who see us onstage, and I really hope they're going to make the effort to check this album because I think it's worth it.
Why do you think it's worth it? Why should the fans check out Solar Soul?
Because my feeling is this is the best thing we've done.
Ok, well thanks for the interview.
Thanks to you too.
I'm going to leave you go now, so thanks for everything. I wish you all the best with Samael.
Thank you very much.
Alright. Take care.
Take care too, and have a good night.
And you as well. Ok, goodbye.
Ok bye bye.